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MarkusMaximus MarkusMaximus is offline
Maven
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England, UK
Posts: 60
Passports issued post 2000 have digitally printed photographs like the driving licences.

The Royal Bank of Scotland already do digitally print the photographs of cardholders onto debit cards. However many customers however opt not to take advantage of this service.
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software-europe software-europe is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London
Posts: 97
the picture things are no use for over the net transactions or
those done via the telephone. even the finger printing thing and
chip-and-pin doesn't help for these.... someone was talking about
having chip-and-pin over the net, but the net aint secure enough for people to be giving up their pins over it....

someone mentioned france and other european countries using
chip-and-pin, does anyone know how these countries are dealing
with ATM, internet and over-the-phone transactions??

furthur more, does anyone know where i can go to get the latest
fraud figures in £,$,Euros??

anyone got any ideas of a system or approach to combatting the existing issues???

and how about this question? is credit fraud bad enough for everyone to be worried about it? any of u worried enough to have
a chip placed in ur right or left arm/shoulder?
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software-europe software-europe is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London
Posts: 97
also, anything more on that multi-accont card idea.... i.e. having a card with which u can transact from and via several or multiple accounts managed from that one card?

fears? comments? views?
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MarkusMaximus MarkusMaximus is offline
Maven
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England, UK
Posts: 60
I don't personally think this sort of thing can work at present as it would require a complete overhaul of the EFTPOS systems for retailers. This may be just a software update for those with newer equipment but it could be mean new hardware for those with older equipment that is unable to accept updates. Either way it would be expensive and who would be expected to pick up the tab? The banks? The retailer? I suspose it would be similar to chip and pin and it would fall to whoever owns the equipment.

Another concern I have with this sort of thing is if a cardholder was unluckly enough to have their card taken (as I was 3 months ago), it would give the thief access to more of their accounts. I only had one card stolen so only one of my accounts was comprised, but if I had held one of these 'one for all' cards potentially I would have stood to lose a lot more had they been able to access multiple accounts of mine.
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Elleis Elleis is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23
software-europe
sorry for the delayed reply on your fingerprints query and apologies for the rant that follows

You will be horrified at my lack of security conciousness when I explain my reasoning on this one. Up until a few months ago I only had a LINK card which meant I couldn't pay for things in shops/over phone/ or online. The only time this bothered me was when I didn't have time to get to a cash machine. Becasue I am happy and confident in my husbands ability to protect my PIN I could send him out with my card to bring back cash. This is very handy when you are hungover, have a takeaway delivery on the way, and have nothing available to pay with. If all cards had fingerprint technology - I wouldn't have this flexibility.

Now that I have a debit card I could probably get over this, but then we come to equipment failure. Based on Australian practice, when systems go down, you revert to the old signature method. So I don't feel it is much safer than chip and pin.

I think if you tried to introduce fingerprints/implants you would probably come up against the old civil rights and disability discrimination arguments. I'm not clear on how fingerprint ID works, whether you just provide one finger or whether your whole hand is on record, but what happens if you are in an accident and are burned on both hands. You can't provide a fingerprint scan, does this mean you can't access your account. And what if you don't have a left shoulder for a chip implant? Where do they put it then?

If you look at all the civil rights arguments about at the moment over government using satellites to track your vehicle and charge for milage according to how busy it is - you can just image the kind of uproar there would be over this. Then you have the religions that won't allow blood transfusions, I can't see them going in for implants.

As a law abiding citizen with no religious beliefs none of this particularly bothers me. I think people have got to accept the fact that there are risks associated with most areas of our daily lives, crossing the road, mobile phone use etc etc and we still do those things. As long as you take reasonable steps to protect your own interests I don't see why it has to get too complicated.
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Netcomm UK Netcomm UK is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 556
I'm going to put my points across now.

We're working on behalf of a large Chemists in Gloucestershire, who have 8 stores. 3 of these have need for more than 1 chip & pin machine.

I have been talking to Streamline about the setup needed for the machines, and they have told me that they cannot all be linked into the LAN and done over broadband, which would have been the ideal solution. They can be done over BB if you use a microfilter, but this still means only 1 line to take 3 machines.

So the story is for every machine, you need 1 phone line to make sure that the machines don't interfere with each other when in use. ****.
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software-europe software-europe is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London
Posts: 97
Elleis, u really got me thinking......

on the finger print thing, ur whole hand would be in the system and if u lost that hand, u would not be able to take advantage of
the system...

your point about flexibility is somewhat address my being able to
nominate people that could use ur card, though i doubt the
banks would be up for this... and if they were u might nominate
2 people max. anyone else (like ur mates) would still be out of this
pool of possibilities.... *very interesting problem doh babe*

the implants developed by the american company are small
radio transmitters that could be fitted anywhere. they dont work by contact, they work by vacinity. so if it was in ur calve (is that how u spell it? back of the leg at shin level) it would still work, if u passed by the reader.

I personally think implants is goin too far. But i do think we will have to come to rely on some form of biometrics be it either
facial, iris, voice (too weak) or finger print recognition. Because there is no way u can identify someone as being someone unless
u take a biometric, just being able to cite a piece of information
like a 4 digit pin or 8 character password is not enough.

Markus' point about cost is the one I'm inclined to get worried about and was in a around about way the reason for my previous question "is card fraud even bad enough right now for people to be worried about consider extreme solutions"? that is not a quote but its the jist of my previous question. Implementation costs are sky high. And there for deter and discourage many to
consider pushing for changes and/or new technologies.

And I see where the fear is with regards to cards being taken under the current state of affairs. But with a more secure system
in place i think people might lean towards entertaining the advantages of only having to carry one card if the system in
which that card functioned was proven secure.

Who here has more then one card that they use?
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Elleis Elleis is offline
Starting Out
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23
since this thread started 3 people have mentioned to me that they have had a call from their bank recently checking if they still have their card. In all 3 cases it was cause there was unusual spending activity on their card. For two of the three, it was just a case of them shopping on days they didn't normally, or buying lots at once. The third had actually lost their card but hadn't yet realised.

The fact that my bank is watching out for me makes me feel pretty secure at this point in time. I'm certainly not yet ready for drastic measures or increased costs.
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software-europe software-europe is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Posts: 97
Yes you can thank companys like Autonomy.com that create these
automated fraud detection software packages that analyse consumer usage trends. Tis all spooky. But no drastic measures for you.... I feel the majority would sit with u on that one...

Hey guys, what about these France figures. Everytime I here "Hey yeh, C&P works, its done wonders in france...." anyone
know if that's a true representation? And if other forms of CC fraud have prevailed....?
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natasha natasha is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Walthamstow, London
Posts: 1,665
Hi
My bank also phoned me when my card was stolen through the post a day after it was stolen i didn't even realise that the money was missing from my account twas only when the bank phoned me that i found out i'm glad that the bank discovered it first and i didn't have to try and prove that i didn't make the transactions.
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software-europe software-europe is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London
Posts: 97
You must not be a frequent or perhaps those crooks used ur card at some stupid time like a week day.

Many stolen cards aren't used in the ATMs, cos no Pin. But on some sites they can still be used on the Internet and definitely in some shops. But any transaction that isn't done on a saturday afternoon would be a "spike" on most peoples trends charts...
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natasha natasha is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Walthamstow, London
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the bank phoned because they had spent over £700 in one day.
I use my card all the time but not that much.
The good thing was i got the money back within a few days.
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"Make no small plans for they have no power to stir the soul." (Niccolo Machiavelli)

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