PDA

View Full Version : Anyone aged 20-25 looking to go into business, but whose friends aren't?


HSS
19-01-2003, 11:27 PM
Hi folks, I was just wondering whether there's anyone out there whose aged 20-25, looking to go into business soon (1-2 yrs) but have to struggle on their own, because their mates don't share the same dream, and can't find the people who do share the same dream. I'm looking to go into business, not just for the money (if I make any) but because there's something to do Mon-Fri 9-5. If there are people who have started a business, by themselves - literally, how did you do it? What advice can you give to someone starting out? Cheers and Best of Luck!

choc
20-01-2003, 09:33 AM
If you have passion,enthusiasm and a dream my friend then go for it.If your mates are not interested in your goals dont worry, i bet they have the 9-5 mentality.You will always look back and ask yourself what if!!It takes guts and determination to succeed in buisness and a bit of luck..

All the best.

elena
20-01-2003, 01:43 PM
Most of my friend are in a 9-5 job and doing very well. they think im mad to have given my job and start my own business. I hardly talk about work with my friends as they don't understand.

Why would you give up a secure job, decent salary and holidays for the unknown?

Starting a business isn't for everyone and just because your friends are not interested if you have an idea and you believe in it why not go it alone?

Its not that bad....

Dedsoldya
20-01-2003, 08:33 PM
as a business enterprise student I have been studying all about identifying entrepreneurs. People who set up their own business and who have innovation, abilty and ambition are those which you should be looking for, people who are uninterested and lack these three main qualities and the quality of wanting to make money should be avoided. Its all based on the narrow economy school of thought.

Respect

mobi
29-01-2003, 02:17 PM
Yep I have the same problem...no one seems focussed enough to see anything past their boring 9-5 lives. People like us will be the ones to succeed as we have the every waking passion for our own ventures.

craig_bell
29-01-2003, 09:51 PM
I disagree with you Dedsoldya. Having studies AVCE business for two years and now doing a business degree, I would have to say that one quality of an entrepreneur is to want to make money. The whole point of going into business is to try and grow a successful one, and the only way that determines a successful business is the sales and profit. An entrepreneurs motivation is based on the sales and profits.

Good luck HSS in your new venture!

Regards,

Craig

Karl
29-01-2003, 11:20 PM
Hi mate,

I started out 6 years ago while still at uni and my friends thought i was mad (still do) and could'nt quite see the logic in working for myself. I guess there are alot more people that opt for the luxury of being told what to do rather than call the shots themselves.
Above all, try to establish what sort of person YOU are. Are you the shepard or one of the sheep?
Most people doing a 9-5 (or more realistically 8-7, 6 days a week) are doing it for some entreprenuer that started out in the same way your thinking of going now. I would rather do an 8-7 for myself then for someone else anyday-plus the hours are great!

I reckon if you have a good idea, passion and desire to work your b*&%'s off then you've got more to lose if you DON'T go for it!
Now i am glad that most others & my friends don't think the same way as i do-alot less competition that way!

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

joshdhaliwal
30-01-2003, 05:29 PM
I gave up a well paid job with a media company to pursue my interests and despite life never having been tougher than in our first year and being on the verge of giving up it has paid off. Although considerably less well off than friends who have carved out 9-5 careers for themselves I am happier now than at any stage of my working life. We created something from scratch and its become our 'baby'. The money actually (for me at least) begins to take second place to see the company expand and grabbing the attention of companies who are not only our clients but competitors.

One of the happiest moments was being acknowledged by one of our competitors' directors (a huge global enterprise) as "those boys in the shed."

Entrepreneur
01-02-2003, 01:47 PM
hhhhmmmm....

I definitely have friends who like the 9-5 ours plus 2 hours travel everyday.....but I for once have been thinking of opening my own business....

I currently work for one of the biggest IT Solution providers in the world....but at a salary that is not meeting my everyday needs...

so if you need between 2-3 people for a business but none of your friends like the idea....WOULD YOU INVOLVE YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS???

I have some ideas (cannot say they are original....but any business can succeed as long as it is better than the next man) so i am thinking of catering....possibly....Pizza restaurant to be precise....

does anyone have any idea what I am getting in to.....I am not scared of hard work for a few years if it pays off in the long run...and how much capital would I need???

Any advice would be appreciated!!

Dedsoldya
01-02-2003, 08:18 PM
no offence craig bell, but i feel you should go back and take your avce business studies, not showing off or anything, I got an A in by alevel business studies, 95%, one of the highest in the country.

I clearly stated that an entrepreneur is someone who has ambition, ability and as strong innovative qualities.

Inovation is producing new things and working on new ideas, in other words trying to find a niche market, a niche market with no other competitors is surely the type of market to exploit and make lots of money.

When you said peoples aim is to make profit your wrong, their first aim is to satisfy demand, once that is done then they will make profit.

No offence homeboy.

craig_bell
01-02-2003, 10:39 PM
Well that is good for you Dedsoldya. Actually though... I got two AA which is the equivalent of A-Levels so really you may want to consider what I got before shouting your mouth off.

As far as I am concerned that is not true. Would you say that Stelios (founder of EasyJet) was an entrepreneur? The answer is YES! He set up and founded EasyJet and then moved on to other things... and he has hardly no control over it now. And the reason? He wanted to make money.... which is the aim of every entrepreneur.

So sort your life out... Mr 'A' Level boy


Craig

007tobs
01-02-2003, 11:19 PM
its great news that none of your friends are interested! its so much less competition. its difficult enough trying to create a successful business so think how much harder it would be if everyone wanted to do it! if you need someone who shares the same interests you can easily find someone. just dont let your friends get you down, use them as a positive in going into business as they think how the majority do which gives a lot less competition.

best of luck in your venture!!!!

Dedsoldya
02-02-2003, 04:02 PM
Craig Bellend no offence but your answer is somewhat vivid and very tame, i find it very unlikely that you got two AA's in business.
Stellios was an entrepreneur, he used innovation, abilty and his ambition to get him where he wanted to be. His first aim was to meet demand, his strategy revolved around this concept, once he met demand and broke even he then adapted his startegy onto profit maximisation. As I already quoted, entrepreneurs are those who use innovation, mainly to find niche (no risk) markets which he accomplished. Would you still be calling him an entrepreneur if he hadn't made money. I think not.

Over time all peoples aims are to make money, but for small businesses their primary aim is to get well established in their feild, meet demand and then things being well aim to make money.

However you seem to think that peoples primary aims are to make money, as soon as they go into business they will make money. Wrong bellboy. Many businesses aims are to maximise sales, for small businesses maybe to keep costs low, some to satisfy shareholders which doesn't necesserily mean making as much profit as possible. Although with two AA'S (BULLSH*T), YOU WILL ALREADY KNOW THAT.

Rhys
02-02-2003, 04:36 PM
Easy guys/gals - you don't need to call each other names to get your point of view across.

Don't really want to get into an arguement or name calling or anything but a niche market is not a no risk market. In fact in many cases it carries more risk because you are stepping into the unknown. You will need to persuad customers that they need or want this new product or service and it's well known that people don't like change.

craig_bell
02-02-2003, 08:33 PM
Sorry Dedsoldya, but this has got well out of hand. Actually I did get two AAs in my AVCE and to be honest I don't really care if you believe me or not. What I am saying is that an entreprenuer takes a risk using his money to *hopefully* make a larger return (profit) An entreprenuer doesn't think "Hmm... well I might set up a busines with a million pounds of my money just so it fills a niche". Unfortunatly the statement is true that the only thing that business revolves around is money.

Craig

rtjward
03-02-2003, 08:55 AM
I'm curious: Whic IT Solutions Provider do you work for? I also work for one of the biggest solutions providers. Is it IBM or EDS or some other? Any particular reason why you're looking to get out?

Russell.

Dedsoldya
03-02-2003, 05:47 PM
There is no clear definition of an entrepreneur, there is however amongst economists (adam smith, Schumpeter), that there is little risk involved in entrepeneurship. The entrepreneur has researched the market, used innovation, ability and ambition to find the correct market (a niche market) and will profit from that. A niche market for an individual is high risk, for an entrepreneur, very little risk, for he has thoroughly researched and used innovation to extract from the market.

Businesses don't all revolve around profit, they initially aim to meet demand and then will profit from this. Strategies revolve around meeting this demand and not profit maximisation, this comes later. Many small firms concentrate on keeping costs low, rather than profit maximisation, its one of Michael E Porters generic strategies. You should kno who he is. If a small businesses startegy was to make profit staright away, then they would put prices up, expand etc, all too quick for a small firm.

joshdhaliwal
03-02-2003, 06:03 PM
Craig_Bell wrote: Unfortunatly the statement is true that the only thing that business revolves around is money.

Wow is that a little off the mark. I don't want to get involved in the kind of "discussions" that have preceded but in my own experience. Starting a business takes a lot of commitment, energy, drive, enthusiam and resilience. You need to be in it for more than the money because that alone will not sustain you for long when it doesn't come easily especially if you're giving up a 9-5pm job - whether well paid or not...

As for using Stelios as an example, a little unfair I guess. His parents were already running a successful Greek Shipping business which he joined after University. He used this experience and monies to launch his own venture.

Entrepreneur
03-02-2003, 06:51 PM
Why are you curious rtjward.

Working for big companies sometimes can be not so good....
Unless you are working in a very high position...IT salaries are pretty rubbish at the moment.

The reason....as I stated before...I will not be able to make ends meet...

I need to buy a house and obviously the other finer things in life.

I also want to make it in life...I dont want to be working until 60..still trying to see if I will be able to pay the bills....I have always thought I am gonna do something big....its just one of those things and at 25...I think I better start quick....


The problem with me making the first jump...I am bit too scared to give up that regualr salary....but I think I am starting to put my ideas onto a paper....and take it from there...

any constructive critcism is always welcome!!

p.s I work for EDS

Rhys
03-02-2003, 09:11 PM
In reality a niche market is very risky but as everyone knows the ultimate rewards can be great. The only situation whereby it would be low risk was if the "entrepreneur" had perfect information, ability and personal traits, but this situation only exists in theories not in reality. Theories are not models for real life - they exist only to attempt to measure the immeasurable. How do you measure or quantify innovation skills, ability and ambition? The answer is you can't and any answer you give will only be subjective based on your or any other theorists idealistic view.

All theories have alternative theories that will attempt to disprove what the other one said. And the ultimate answer is there is no one generic theory that fits all situations, which means that they are all flawed. The world is too complex and there are too many external forces to simplify things to this degree.

You shouldn't take these theories to any extreme and if you could speak to the people that came up with them, I'm sure they would tell you the same thing.

Also I agree with Craig, businesses ultimately revolve around making a profit - if they didn't then they would go bust. However they do have other goals, which form part of their overall strategy to make a profit, such as meeting demand, keeping costs low, etc, etc.

But if you take each one individually and think about it logically they are both ways to maximise profits.

Meeting demand can be interpreted as maximising sales.
Now consider keeping costs as low as possible, call them cost of sales.
Isn't => sales - cost of sales = profit (at a basic level).

I think we may be talking about two different issues here as well - Business goals and personal ambitions. "Personal ambitions", which are the reasons why you have started a business are something different altogether. But ultimately EVERY BUSINESS aims to make a profit.

rtjward
04-02-2003, 07:59 AM
I was just curious because like I said, I also work for an IT service provider which also happens to be EDS.

IT salaries are low at the moment but the job market is picking up. A lot of money as you will no doubt be aware can be made in IT and in terms of buying you those 'lifes luxuries' and a house that you mention, pursuing a career in IT will get you these a lot faster (a lot faster!). A business in the short term is likely to mean a cut in salary and maybe even/likely for up to 5 years or until you get that break (although possibly not).

It obviously depends on what line of IT work you're in, but have you thought about getting some experience and then going contracting? This, again as you probably know is very lucrative and opens up further avenues e.g. the possibility of setting up on your own and employing additional people and contracting these out, that is all some recruitment agencies do and I deal with someone in my current role who has done this and must be taking home at least 100k pa, others have guestimated it's mor towards the 200k mark.

On an EDS note: Things aren't obviously too great at the moment are they, in fact they're pretty terrible with no pay rises, bonuses, promotions, and external training until 2004, and then still no guarantee. So I don't blame you for wanting to set up on your own. But I was talking with my boss about this and he made a comment which I tend to agree with: He said that if you set up a business in our line of work (IT) you could make a fortune. I think he's right, of course ,your idea has to have good business fundamentals, but money is there to be made in IT.

R.

Mquig
04-02-2003, 10:00 AM
WHY ON EARTH DOES EVERYONE IN HERE BANG ON ABOUT STELIOS THE ORANGE TANGO MAN? - You would think he was the only business man on the planet - FACE IT - HE GOT LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I agree with both of you, you must want the business to be a success but one of the main objects of starting a business is becoming independant from reling on someone to give you money at the end of the month.

MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND - AND WE ALL NEED AS MUCH AS WE CAN GET - Craig - I hope you make lots and lots and lots!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mquig

Dedsoldya
04-02-2003, 02:07 PM
Rhys, I enjoyed reading your literature above, however you are talking about perfect competition in which you claimed didn't exist in reality, this is true, however in perfect competition we are talking about vast amount s of small companies producing homogeneus products, this is not a niche market and therefore you have your theory mixed up, a niche market if controlled is more on the lines of a monopoly, imperfect competition where there is imperfect knowledge.

The second point is that all companies exist to make profit, however their first objective is to keep competitive in the industry, profit maximisation straight away is not an option, they aim to break even through creating sufficient demand, there startegy is based on marketing in order to target this demand, not on profit maximisation which they cannot afford in terms of marketing.

They aim to keep costs low x efficiency, rather than x inefficiency.

x inefficiency is what most large firms have, they aren't bothered about keeping costs low as they control part of the market, instaed they are concentrating on making profit by meeting the demand from customers.

We are talking about small businesses just starting up, they must firstly keep costs low in order to keep prices low and remain competitive, aim to meet demand and then afterwards make profit.

Many large firms do apply theories to their work and many have succeded, i.e. ford, body shop, microsoft etc.

Rhys
04-02-2003, 06:27 PM
Hi Dedsoldya

You have misinterpreted what I was saying. You originally said that a niche market had very little risk. I was explaining that your definition of an entrepreneur is based on someone who fits the ideal "characteristics" 100% - perfectly. (Whatever they may be). And it's this definition of an entrepreneur that helps take the risk out of a niche market but in reality these people don't exist. And therefore, in reality, a niche market can be quite risky.

The point I made is that every company exists to make a profit - whether small or large. All the examples you have given so far have been strategies to help the business become profitable.
Why do the companies try to be competitive in their industry? So they can sell their products. Why? So they can make a profit.
Whichever way you put it the end goal is still to make a profit. So while companies do try to keep costs low, maximise sales, etc, the ultimate purpose of this is to make a profit.

In fact something you fail to recognise is that small businesses/start-ups should not try to compete on a low price strategy they should differentiate on what they offer. One of the main reasons why new companies fail is because they try to follow a low price strategy and compete with established companies which is incredably difficult. If a small company does this successfully then it is usually a reflection on how bad the competition is rather then how good they are.

You have also mistaken Theories for Strategies. Companies apply different strategies not theories. But that's something else and I think it's probably better we didn't go there. You will understand more when you get to the third year of your business degree and you study strategy. Well it's usually in the third year of most people's business degree.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Entrepreneur
04-02-2003, 06:44 PM
rtjward

I know salaries are low and this is because of Y2k, the economy and supply and demand.

Certain sectors of IT are not as well paid as they used to be...Technical/2nd Line support for example. Often jobs require you to have 2-3 years experience and an MCSE yet the salary is mediocre. Other parts of IT like Programming, C++, Oracle databases etc are still very well paid but you have to be good and know your stuff pretty well.

There are lots of Tom, Dick and Harry's who have flooded the market with paper MCSE's and therefore part of reason for salaries coming down. However with regards to EDS....its a joke to be a permie....no raise....no overtime pay.....no travelling time pay if your job involves travelling and no bonuses....well I never got any since with EDS. To work for EDS its better to be a contractor...although rates for them are also coming down now.

Don't get me wrong.....I don't want to be multi millionaire (wouldnt mind though :)) but I feel as long as I could earn what I am earning now doing my own business I would be happy. And obviously if I could put more into it...I would get more out and thus I could increase my income over time....sometimes working for someone else you cannot even do that....and u still gotta put up with company policies!!!

I have thought about contracting but not with my current skills. I think I might gain some skills in SQL and try to move within EDS to get some experience and try next year if/when contracting market picks up.

Dedsoldya
06-02-2003, 10:28 AM
I was explaining that your definition of an entrepreneur is based on someone who fits the ideal "characteristics" 100% - perfectly,

This is not what I was saying, I was saying that an entrepreneur through innovation, ability and ambition, will recognise a niche market and exploi it using some of the entrepreneurial traits. Annita Roddick for example.

Secondly low cost and hence low prices are what small firms wish to achieve. However I understand what you are saying with a differentiation startegy and in some cases this might be more effective. If a firm though was to enter into a market monopoly, duopoly or oligopoly it would be very difficult for it to survive with a differentiation startegy, dont forget large firms have the power and money to differentiate aswell, if a small firm is seen to be taking custom away, they will simply adapt their startegy and copy the small firm, or differentiate in a better way than the small firm. In an industry controlled by monopolies, duopos or oligops, small firms will find it hard to survive, keeping costs low to compete against rival small firms may see them to take market share, as their prices will be lower and therefore become more stable in the market.

My last point is that I fully believe that any business is in the game to make a profit, however their first objective would be to survive and break-even, this was simply my point. Obviously in the long term they would aim to make money. My point is backed up when you read reports that 90% of small firms fail in their first three years, they concentrate too much on making profit, hence high prices, instead of trying to keep low costs, therefore low prices and therefore competitive advantage (michael e porter.)


This is probably going to be my last reply as I am now bored with this conversation, my course doesn't cover startegy, but entrepreneurship which I am covering at the moment. Most of the stuff we cover is based on the theory from Michael E Porter.