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evans14
16-05-2006, 11:42 AM
Hello!
I am one of those 'lurkers' who enjoys reading all the threads here on Shell live wire - now it is time to log on and become a contributor!
For the past 8 months or so I have been busy getting ready (registering trademarks/taking out design patents/finding a supplier etc) to launch my first product (along with 2 friends) and this is what we have come up with. I used to work for an import company and decided i wanted to go it alone and import our own products.
We looked at lots of ideas about what to import but in the end went for 'collectables' mainly because they are cheaper to make and are not too complex to design. Also it seemed more fun to design wacky characters as opposed to importing beef carcasses or computer accessories etc!
Our first brand is called 'Little Hooliganz' and is aimed at the football fan market.
We have received one small batch of 'figures' and I sold them on a local market and wholesale to a few market traders. They sold well and so now I am trying to expand. We are aware it is a very shortlived brand so I want to get it out there before its time is up.
Our website is in development at the moment and is being updated daily. Next to come on the site is an outline of the 'Little Hooliganz' story as well as photos of the figures themselves. So far we have designed and imported one character each from the firmz of the 6 biggest footy teams - Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs, Chelsea and Ncastle.
To be honest the target market are not likely to be any of you lot on the forum unless you are a 12 year old lad who is mad on football!!!
The next stage for me is to contact wholesalers and try and get our figures in the big retailers etc Also I need to get a more reliable supplier from China. (have a serious problem with one supplier and it is going to cost me a painful amount of money as he is either a) a fraud or b) going bankrupt taking my money with him).
In the meantime I thought I would use shell livewire as the first place to lanch our poduct/company to the world (other than by now bored friends and family) as I would like to hear your opinions and feedback on everything - the website, buiness potential etc etc! There is alot more than needs to be done and but I am sure your advice will be very useful.
I have also considered using a marketing company/PR company so I may need some of your services in the not too distant future.

Cheers! here are the links, first our new (ish)company:

http://www.blightycollectables.co.uk/

and you can go through that to our first product but here is the link anyway:

http://www.littlehooliganz.com/

syka786
16-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Hi, I like the idea. I cover similar stuff on my blog. Please send me more information about your products because i couldn't see much on your site, as in pictures of actual products.
Look forward to hearing from you and good luck with your new venture.

Tahir

moneyman
16-05-2006, 02:30 PM
I hate them (not a 12 year old) but the idea will sell. you realy need photos of the products. if you are wondering abut how to distribute all of them i have contacts with other small businesses in the same field who deal with gift shops and how to handle ship and store the products is my specialist subject. if you want advice. give me a call.

Simon Nolan
16-05-2006, 02:59 PM
I dont really think you can sell them to young children. I cant see any mother (and that is who will be paying for them) wanting to encourage hooliganism. I can see the article in the daily mail now!

However i do think they are a good product for older kids/ students.

Incepto
16-05-2006, 03:13 PM
Hi,

Congrats on launching first of all.

I think they could be quite a good idea. Not really sure what they are though. Your site definately needs photos up!

The Little Hooliganz site looks nice, but your site is a little bland- rather forum-post like.

If you've managed to sell some at a market stall, then get the stall holder to buy more off you! Get a wide range of different 'characters' available, so people can properly get collecting. Get selling at different markets, even car-boot sales if you like!

There are hobby/collectable shops all over the place now, so try and sell to them, as well as toy shops. If you have the sole distribution rights, then due to the short sale life, you should start approaching some bigger players like Woolies, maybe even Tesco! Just get as many sold as possible before you approach them to show there is demand.

Good luck.

evans14
16-05-2006, 03:46 PM
Hello,
Thanks for all your replies and constructive critiscism. Yes we need photos of the products asap they will be there soon/tonight. Basically they are like the characters on the website PVC figurines 12 cm in height.

Mr Moneyman thanks for your offer of advice on distribution which I will take you up on soon. My main problem at the moment is the fact we are a small company and the Chinese manufacturers obviously want big orders rather than my small orders. Also the time problem is massive because it takes a month to ship it across which is causing me a headache with planning etc

But once again thanks for the advice it is very useful

Chris

JustOneUK
16-05-2006, 05:02 PM
they look like they would do OK as keyrings or something like that. Not sure if you are opening yourself up to major league prosecution for using the logo's ....and in fact also defacing them "O3" and " Carlsbarg" for example.

good luck with them

James.

MclearyCycles
17-05-2006, 12:01 AM
I have the same problem with china. Basically they're greedy fookers. The best way to do it ive found is tell them your yearly spend, for me its around 30 000usd and tell them that if you're happy with the products your orders will increase. Get onto www.alibaba.com or asiatrademart.com.tw and do some searching. ive went through a ton of places and as soon as they say something i don't like, such as "well you have to order 10 000 units" they get told to take a run and jump. you got an agent over there or do you deal direct with the factories? China slowly goes out my window and I head to Taiwan where they understand my needs better. For shipping, lead times on bike products are 45 days and sometimes 90 days so in order to overcome this, instead of ordering 3-4 months worth of stock people have to order 5-6 months worth and then order more while they have a ton of stock left. On small orders we just use DHL by air but that depends on the size of stuff. If its sea frieght,i can't really see a way to cut down on time other than get a manu closer to home.

evans14
22-08-2006, 11:15 AM
jhh

..DN..
22-08-2006, 12:17 PM
Interesting idea.

The http://www.littlehooliganz.com website is not happy at all in firefox. Just thought I'd let you know.

futurebobbers
22-08-2006, 12:49 PM
Website works in Safari, albeit with a dash of horizontal scroll on my screen.

Although not to my taste, I can picture these selling very well - I see shelves full of them in Birthdays and Clinton cards.

I dont really think you can sell them to young children. I cant see any mother (and that is who will be paying for them) wanting to encourage hooliganism.Oh yes they will. Are there any under 18s who don't own a copy of Grand Theft Auto Whore Murder City on the Playstation?

nick.martin
22-08-2006, 01:33 PM
I like them, but I'd never buy one, lol.

eimanshalash
22-08-2006, 01:35 PM
Just a quick comment about your trademark. If you've registered your trademark and it has been approved by the Patent Office you can now use the which means it's registered officially.

I noticed you use the copyright symbol mainly.

emmalr
22-08-2006, 02:39 PM
You may find you'll get into a lot of trouble by using other companies official logo's without permission. We needed to help a client get permission to use a well known logo for his product (childrens delivery van toy) and it's not as simple as just sticking the logo on the side.
We needed to draw up licensing agreements and agree on a percentage of 'royalities' from each sale to go to the brand owner.

You've also used official team shirts/logos - they are treated the same way as brands and are copyrighted.

You may want to check with a trademark lawyer.

Emma.

SMNorman
22-08-2006, 04:00 PM
Hi evans

I think your website looks great - and this type of thing I reckon would sell really well - if you own the rights to your designs, you should see if you can licence them to companies who turn them into cards, notepads, keyrings, little cakes etc that you see in the shops mentioned above (Birthdays etc). I think there's a brand licensing expo at Earls Court every year where you can display your brand and talk to people about this sort of stuff. However, don't you have to get permission from famous people to use their image? Im not sure but I thought celebrities sometimes get upset when they're associated with something that they've not been paid to endorse? Just a thought.

JustOneUK
22-08-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by evans14
jhh

Interesting way to bump a 3 month old thread. ;)

Play!!
22-08-2006, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by JustOneUK
Interesting way to bump a 3 month old thread. ;)

heh, I must have missed this thread.

How did sales go over the world cup period mate?

JamieM
24-08-2006, 10:16 AM
I like the idea but I heard the news this morning.

Be sure to let us know if the old 'no publicity is bad publicity' rings true.

Hope you can sort something out.

eimanshalash
24-08-2006, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by JamieM
I like the idea but I heard the news this morning.

Be sure to let us know if the old 'no publicity is bad publicity' rings true.

Hope you can sort something out.

You mean this
http://www.metro.co.uk/capcomp/article.html?in_article_id=18937&in_page_id=20

Controversial isn't it!

Hmm..I wonder how it will go. Blighty Collectables have been threatened with a legal action against them.

futurebobbers
24-08-2006, 11:28 AM
Blighty Collectables have been threatened with a legal action against them. He's probably not worried about that little bit of horizontal scroll on his website anymore then... :)

JamieM
24-08-2006, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by eimanshalash
You mean this
http://www.metro.co.uk/capcomp/article.html?in_article_id=18937&in_page_id=20

Controversial isn't it!

Hmm..I wonder how it will go. Blighty Collectables have been threatened with a legal action against them.

Yes, it was on the radio as well. It would be a shame if this spelled the end for the little hooliganz. I think it is a good (if controversial) product. I can completely understand the clubs and leagues reaction though. Football hooliganism is a real problem for them and I can't see any way they would associate themselves with this.

evans14
27-08-2006, 07:03 PM
Yes after a crazy few days where business was booming suddenly we have had a letter from the Premier league and their lawyers. It is a very scary letter indeed. Not exactly a love letter I can tell you that. Basically they have told us to close down the site and destroy all our stock before 8th of sept. Lovely. If we dont our derrieres are in court.
Not sure exactly what steps we will take as yet but having read the letter a fair few times I cant help but feel its a little harsh. I think we will contact them and ask if there is any way we can stay in business. ie if we tweak the product a little here and there. If they say no.........
Obviously if it came to a court case we have much more money than them and so would wipe the floor with them. Its us (Goliath) against them (David). We will keep suing them and appealing until they run out of money!

Basically if it goes to court it will be me in the defence box as chief defence lawyer/solictor/witness/note taker and tea maker. lovely.

big_phoenix
27-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Did you not know you were using someone elses copyrighted material?

moneyman
28-08-2006, 09:10 AM
i see you have a problem. i cant remember just how close your shirts were to the originals. dont panic but you could do with some professional advice fast. Are the premiership saying that hooligans were their own invention and do they realy associate themeselves with the characters or are they a parody? are the colours and names copywrited? lastly i think sticking the company logos may be too close for comfort. it will also date the product.
worse case senario paint them white and have a set of colours in the box so that the kids can personalise them to their favorite team rather like the pottery caff idea.

evans14
28-08-2006, 12:15 PM
Moneyman,
Yes thankd for your advice.Thats not a bad idea about letting kids paint the figures them selves. Still trying to decide what to do but it seems that whatever we do there is a good chance that the Premier league will sue us. Thats not good for business as no one will order figures from us with that threat over our heads!

eimanshalash
28-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Isn't all publicity good publicity and can't you have an article written about this in the local paper? Call me naive but you can milk this as well. No one likes bullies and it does read like a small business is bullied by the big guys.

However I can see why they might object to your products!

gwhaskew
28-08-2006, 05:41 PM
Organisations always come on very strong when they threaten with legal action. You should ask them for the specifics of the conflict.

BTW, do you really have more money than the prem league or have you written the above the wrong way round.... just the prem league has multimillions... and probably a good case.

evans14
28-08-2006, 06:26 PM
Yes gwksw actually that was my failed attempt at sarcasm when I mentioned money. Basically they have all the money in the world and we have a threepenny bit. So in terms of going up against them it looks ominous. The only thing to do is to self represent in court so as to not go bankrupt. If we hire a lawyer and win the case they can just appeal knowing we will eventually run out of money. So instead muggins will be in the defence myself. We will change the product though so as not to be breaking the copyright laws. However they said we must stop trading all together not just change things around. Its a grey area and they might still decide to sue. See you in court then Premier league if that is the case!!

gwhaskew
28-08-2006, 06:42 PM
OK, I did think it might be sarcastic.

I really think you should avoid going to court. You shouldn't even try to defend yourself. They will win AND if you become bankrupt then you really will be in a messy position.

I would suggest reading up on some IP (intellectual property) law and reworking your product. They can't ask you to stop trading if you can show them that your product doesn't contravene IP law.

The problem being that if they you don't co-operate with them they could still take you to court over already breaking the law.




Another thing you could do... but I don't reccommend it is to sell your product from India where the IP law practically doesnt exist...

SoulSeeker
28-08-2006, 08:05 PM
Just like yourself evans, I had a fair few great ideas that I knew would work well. However, when you research deeper youll see a list of laws its governed by and thats the point where you either give up or risk court cases like this. Unfortunately, them being the big dogs you cant do much.

This is why I always stress the need for research, not just market research but the legalities, the structures, etc etc

Such a shame, a great idea before it even started. I think you should continue with your whacky designs which will definatly sell, just make sure they dont infringe on any copyrights or mock the big dogs too much. Dont forget you gained a lot of publicity already, I would capitalise on it :)

evans14
28-08-2006, 09:45 PM
Soulseeker and gwhsw

Thanks for your advice. It seems we have designed and produced a unique product concept in that the IP law does not cover it. The very nature of the product Little Hooliganz is a product and concept that is based on a loose affiliation with a geographical area. The Premier league will argue it is based on a loose affiliation with a football team. I believe it is the area that is more important/prominent than the football team. However it is a grey area and a judge may have difficulty deciding what the truth is.

With regards to copyright laws the new Little Hooliganz will have no badges/sp[onsorship etc

The Premier league may still decide to sue though. If this is the case I will have no choice but to defend ourselves. From what I have heard it is impossible for us to be adble to aford a lawyer. Even if we can afford a lawyer and win the Premier league can just appeal knowing it will cost us lots more monay to hire a lawyer again. Then they appeal again and again etc until we go bankrupt because of lawyers fees. I have been reading up and it happens alot in the computer games industry.

So only way to counteract this is to self represent ie me be the lawyer. It doesnt cost money it only costs time. sounds fun anyway. I was going to do A level law but dropped it last minute. doh!

Anybody fancy teaching me how to be a lawyer??

Hopefully they wont sue but there is a chance they will even if we change the little hooliganz to the letter of the law as it stands today. They may say the fact that the Little Hooligan has a red shirt on and was born in a place called Arsenal in North London is akin to breaking the copyright of Arsenal Football club even though we wont use Arsenbal football clubs name or badge or shirt.

its a fine law and seems to be uncharted territory for copyright law.

gwhaskew
28-08-2006, 11:45 PM
Also, try to get as much free legal advice sessions as you can. A friend of mine once saw something like 12 solicitors on a 'free' initial consultation... eventually he had all the legal advice he needed... :)

SMNorman
29-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Hi

Just a thought (and this is only my opinion from what i've read - don't rely on it etc etc etc ;-)) but is the premier league not saying that either (i) you're taking advantage of the goodwill that they have in their name to make yourself money or (ii) you're using their trade marks, not copyright? Sounds weird that it would be copyright rather than trade marks.

Remember also that if they do take you to court, they would have to PROVE that you broke the law. I think you need to check what trade marks they have (try the patent office website - they have records of everyone's registered trade marks in the UK) and how they think you have used them against the law. Maybe because your characters look similar to real players and people might associate them with the premier league, they think you have broken trade mark laws - or at least they want you to think that you have. Maybe if you have, they will let you have a trade mark licence so you can carry on. You would have to speak to them.

Speak to your local CAB or business link and see if they can recommend a trade mark lawyer who will give you an hour of free advice. However, from my own experience, the law is not very clear on what you can and can't do so unless you've done something very wrong (which the lawyer should be able to tell you quite quickly) be wary of lawyers offering to get you 'a deal' - the only winner may well be the lawyer when they charge you lots of money when you could have spoken to the premier league yourself!!

JamieM
29-08-2006, 12:52 PM
Sorry to hear about the challenges. Hope you can sort something out.

Here's a question. How come every post that says 'Do you like my business idea or am I a fruitcake/nutcase?' results in high profile publicity? :D That was Alex Tew's title as well.

Must do one for myself. :D

Play!!
29-08-2006, 06:17 PM
It sounds like your having fun. Good luck, I hope it all goes in your favour.

evans14
29-08-2006, 07:02 PM
Yes thanks very much for all your advice. Amongst the bad news of having the threat of being sued we have the good news that we are receiving publicity. For some reason it has been in the Mexican news. Tomorrow I have an interview with Mexican TV. Not something I can say I had planned on!
If any of you happen to be watching I will give you a wave.
Whats Spanish for 'the bloody Premier league are suing us'?

Play!!
29-08-2006, 07:27 PM
Do you have any mexican sports people in your product line-up?

studentcanvas
29-08-2006, 07:34 PM
can you bring out a new line by tomorrow for the mexicans called THE TACO TERRORS or BURITO BANDITS? lol

best of luck, have you thought of getting a pr team on your side to help get the best of the publicity your getting

gwhaskew
29-08-2006, 09:26 PM
Those mexicans can be dodgy people... watch yourself... LOL..

evans14
30-08-2006, 06:27 PM
Hello there!
Does anyone know a good solictor/lawyer on here??
I have had some advice but it seems there is no answer to our predicament and that everyones opinion is different.
They havent got a chance on the Hooligan argument as you lot have mentined there are worse things on the market eg toy guns/toy soldiers. However it is the copyright and trademark infringements avenue they are going down. Obviously we will have to get rid of all badges and copyrights etc. However they are going further they argue they have a strong case saying we are using the clubs and leagues good name to capitalise upon commercially. We say that we should be able to say a Little Hooligan is from Newcastle as long as we dont use the club badge or logo or the name Newcastle United. We argue that is ok but they say we are using the clubs good name commercially. But isnt all of Newcastle associated with black and white?? not just the footy team. So surely if we have a little hooligan in a black and white shirt it should be ok. Of course we will put place of birth: Newcastle on the packaging as opposed to favourite football team: Newcastle.
Its a grey area though thats the problem.
Oh well we will have to see.
We say Hooliganz are from a certain geographical area belonging to the people eg a city and we should be able to use that for commercial gain.
They say we are using the good name of a football club eg Newcastle United football club for commercial gain and that is not allowed.
Anyway keep up the good advice and thanks for ytour kind words

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 06:56 PM
I am stunned that you have got this far without thinking about the legal issue with this product.

You need to look into paraody, which is regarded as fair use under copyright law.

You could claim the characters are a paraody and thus allowed.

This is honestly your best chance given the circumstances. There have been court cases won in the US around this. Look at Cardtoons Baseball Paraodies 1993.

If you feel kind, you can send me a free Henry for that priceless piece of advice. That means you can keep the kit colours, names, club names but not company logos or anything protected by Trademark rather than copyright.

eimanshalash
30-08-2006, 08:15 PM
Evans - tbh, I originally thought that you had some sort of deal with the clubs originally to create the characters using their 'look'. Wonder if the general public or even your customers thought this too.

Is there something on your website that disclaims this?

evans14
30-08-2006, 10:01 PM
eiman,
No we have never claimed that we have had any agreements/deals with any football clubs and yes we have diclaimers on our website.

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 10:04 PM
Don't worry about Eiman's comment, concentrate on your get out clause.

Abandon trademarks on your work.

Then use parody to protect your right of fair use of a copyright.

You can have strip colours, faces, club & player names etc. No logos, company trademarks like 'Carlsberg' in any form.

Definitely need my free 'Henry'.

eimanshalash
30-08-2006, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by RoughJustice
Don't worry about Eiman's comment, concentrate on your get out clause.

Abandon trademarks on your work.

Then use parody to protect your right of fair use of a copyright.

You can have strip colours, faces, club & player names etc. No logos, company trademarks like 'Carlsberg' in any form.

Defintely need my free 'Henry'.

Awww..you're just after a freebie ;)

evans14
30-08-2006, 10:08 PM
roughjustice.
Cheers for that advice. Will look into it. Yes will send you Henry when we are ok and allowed to start trading again!!

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 10:08 PM
Got to win a court case first and defend yourself. Still think I deserved a Henry for the legal advice.

You have no other defence, and it should be your immediate response to the Premier League.

evans14
30-08-2006, 10:14 PM
Rough Justice - your not a copyright/trademark lawyer by any chance are you??

If so are you free to take on the Premier league??

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 10:21 PM
Actually, hold the defence and unfortuantely my Henry ;)

I worked on a sports product in the US, and parody was the defence if taken to court. (We had lawyers at the beginning to work out our boundaries).

I have just read the copyright law and have worked out that parody only has protection in the US (not here).

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_1.htm

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 10:24 PM
https://www.kent.ac.uk/law/undergraduate/modules/ip/resources/ip_dissertations/2004-05/gerrits.doc

Dissertation on Parody and Copyright Law in the UK.

Interesting reading.

RoughJustice
30-08-2006, 10:29 PM
Case history is very interesting, shows the many problems of defining parody and whether it has been successfully applied as a defence in the UK.

Parody is the only way I can see your product working.

evans14
30-08-2006, 10:37 PM
rough justice,

Yes just read the parody article. Interesting reading I agree! Will have to go through it again a few times first to see if is applicable to our case.

Cheers anyway!

SMNorman
30-08-2006, 11:26 PM
I still think you need to go down more the trade mark road than copyright, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I have some experience of this but i'm certainly no IP lawyer.

I think you need to be clear about whether they're claiming passing off or registered trade mark infringement. If its the first one, ask them for evidence that anyone believes your products are associated with them. if its the second, identify their trade marks and try to remove them from your products. Otherwise, bypass the lawyers and speak to them about whether you can licence their trade marks from them (although you'll probably have to pay them a fee for doing this). Even better - if you have an alternative business, offer to sell them this one for a tidy sum!

SMN

SoulSeeker
31-08-2006, 01:09 AM
Legalities of products is probably the first step someone should take before releasing a product! Not sure if I said that one.

The advice given about the identifying of trademarks and removing them is good advice. On one hand I see them taking you for every penny quite easily, but on the other hand anything is possible.

Have you tried to explain to the club that 1) you didnt know and 2) you havent exactly made a million ? If not let them know how early in the stages you are, and that the products themselves sell because its football and its a funny design not because it mocks clubs, of course you would have to back that up with something.

Id recommend investing in a lawyer, if all works well you should make the money back easily.

Keep us noted on the progress.

evans14
31-08-2006, 08:53 AM
SMNorman,

Thanks for your advice. Yes we have drafted a letter and will send it back to the Premier league today. WE obviously want to work with them and keep our brand going without infringing anyones trade marks or copyright. So we have removed all trade marks. However they still may sue because they may agrue we are passing off a football club by having our character in a red shirt (Arsenal) for example.
Well have to see how they respond.
Not sure we ccould sell the business with the threat of court over its head ot doesnt look too appealing to a potential buyer!!

Soulseeker,

Now we are being sued (potentially) by the Premier league who are acting on behalf of their member clubs. So we may even face being sued by individual clubs as well!! Sokething to look forward to. Furthermore some people have suggested that some of the characters look like real life footballers and that we may get sued by them as well e.g Thierry Henry. I refute this and any resemblence of real life characters is purely co - incidental. As a matter of fact the characters are named after my friends and family. Slap head Nick (liverpool) is designed and named after my brother Nick.

Thanks for all your advice though much appreciated

Play!!
31-08-2006, 09:16 AM
Nice try there Rough Justice. Good thinking.

Evans, keep us informed, I think it's all rather interesting, I'm sure we could all learn a thing or two from this.

SMNorman
31-08-2006, 11:28 AM
Hi Evans

I think passing off actions are difficult to prove and it would be very expensive for the premier league as well. I'm sure they will be looking for a way to settle this more cheaply if they can.

Sorry - I meant you could try to sell the assets of the business to the PL or its licensees ;-)

Best of luck.

JamieM
31-08-2006, 01:01 PM
Interesting indeed but I am going to be boring and suggest you forget it all.

The only way you are going to be able to continue this product is if they are not attributed to a football club.

In my opinion this devalues the appeal of the product greatly and don't think it would sell well enough to justify the hassle.

Fair play to you if you want to keep cracking on with it, but try not to let it turn in to a personal vendetta against the Premier League. Try and make the best business decision going forward and don't let your heart rule your head.

All the best.

SoulSeeker
31-08-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Play!!
Nice try there Rough Justice. Good thinking.

Evans, keep us informed, I think it's all rather interesting, I'm sure we could all learn a thing or two from this.

Theres only one lesson, check the legalities of your idea before going ahead with it. I always stress this time and time again!

evans14
31-08-2006, 03:36 PM
Jamie,
Well I have just sent off our reply to the Premier league requesting a meeting so will have to see what they come back with.
I hope we can make some agreement whereby we can still sell the Little Hooliganz but without infringing anyoens rights.
I think this is the logical business decision to make. Of course I have nothing personal against the Premier league. They are only acting in their own interests, Actually far from it I love the Premier league. In my time I have spent ages arguing with pesky foreigners the virtues of our league as opposed to the Italian and Spanish ones etc
Its the best league in the world!! I have an Arsenal season ticket as well! So there is no way I could ever dislike the Premier league.

SMNorman
31-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Noooo - if I knew you were an Arsenal fan, I wouldn't have tried to help...... ;-)!! Only kidding.

go4it
31-08-2006, 09:33 PM
Out of interest you have made the front page (main story) of the Sheffield Star today (250,000 circulation). Sheffield United have taken a dislike to the characters. A sensitive subject in Sheffield as Sheffield United had (probably still have) the BIFA hooligan group. Sheffield United don't want any association with BIFA hence why they have prob contacted you regarding the Sheffield United figures.

evans14
31-08-2006, 10:44 PM
go4it

Thanks for that news. I am surprised in made it into the news in Sheffield. Yesterday a journalist from the Sheffield Star telephoned asking me for a photo and more information about our case with the Premier league. Obviously because of the predicament we are in I refused to send him any photos as I have been advised to comply with the Premier league and not continue any promotion until we have resolved the position. That said journalist was not happy and said he couldnt run it without a photo. So I am surprised it made it into the news. I will check the website now but thanks for telling me!

Anglo-Sino
01-09-2006, 09:50 AM
Sorry to hear the news Chris. Was just askedme yesterday how you were doing! Sorry I can't help with the legal side....dropped out of AS Law after year 1! I do hope you manage to get things sorted out.
In the meantime with all the PR get a pal to stick some on Ebay!
Good luck.

RoughJustice
01-09-2006, 09:53 AM
By stopping activities you almost admit you might be in the wrong.

Don't expect the premier league to allow your product in a million years.

Fight them or lose.

evans14
01-09-2006, 01:27 PM
Anglo sino,
Yes goo dto hear from you again. Well have to see what happens.

rough justice,
Isnt it a bit of a confrontational attitude to take with the FA? fight them or lose?
Surely its better I try and work with them and listen to what they say? Basically they cant stop our brand 'little Hooliganz'. There is no legal threat against that brand name. The problem is around the 'design' of the characters. Surely I should try and co opertate and find an amicable agreement as opposed to just ignoring them and end up fighting it out??

JamieM
01-09-2006, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by evans14
rough justice,
Isnt it a bit of a confrontational attitude to take with the FA? fight them or lose?
Surely its better I try and work with them and listen to what they say? Basically they cant stop our brand 'little Hooliganz'. There is no legal threat against that brand name. The problem is around the 'design' of the characters. Surely I should try and co opertate and find an amicable agreement as opposed to just ignoring them and end up fighting it out??

Originally posted by RoughJustice
Don't expect the premier league to allow your product in a million years.


I agree with this. No matter what revisions are made, if a Premier League club is in any way associated with holliganism, there is no chance of any agreement.

Do you have something in mind which you think they may agree to?

evans14
01-09-2006, 03:00 PM
Ok maybe agreement is the wrond word. I can never imagine the Premier league will ask us to put on the packaging 'officially endorsed by the Premier league''. However I would like to believe there is an area/position where we can continue our manuufacture of this brand WITHOUT infringing any copyrights/trademarks or breaking any laws.
If the Premier league could be so kind as to work with us in finding this sacred 'area' /position.
Maybe I am being naive in hoping they would help us find this position but I can but try.

RoughJustice
01-09-2006, 03:40 PM
I love the product but I don't think the Premier League will work with you. They have nothing to gain, they will continue to bully.

So whilst fight or die is confrontational, I am highlighting the predicament of your situation.

I think you need to stand your ground, and get your legal case clear and continue business as normal. If you choose to fight, rather than flee.

evans14
01-09-2006, 03:47 PM
rough justice,
Yes I like your never say day attitude. Never has a handle been more appropriate to a posters comments.

That said I still feel the best way to go at the start is to try and be co-operative. Of course if they refuse to be co-operative and continue in an authoritarian way then well I may have to turn to the rough justice way of thinking!!

Ian001
04-09-2006, 05:34 PM
You know what they say - there's no such thing as bad publicity...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/5312226.stm

Play!!
04-09-2006, 06:18 PM
Hmmm, this would mean that you have created limited edition collectalbe products. I could do with one of these. You may not be able to sell them but you could give them as a gift and I could give you some cash as a gift. ;)

Ian001
04-09-2006, 07:40 PM
Ah yes,

I would also be interested in one of these for "free"...